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Be more specific about when the council composition is locked down #955

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@frivoal frivoal commented Dec 6, 2024

This drafts option 1 of #926


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@frivoal frivoal added the Agenda+ Marks issues that are ready for discussion on the call label Dec 6, 2024
@frivoal frivoal added this to the Process 2024/2025 milestone Dec 6, 2024
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Unless there is new information by December 20, this pull request will get merged.

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Reasonable solution to this ambiguity.

Comment on lines +2442 to +2443
Specifically, the list of potential [=Council=] members evolves
as terms start or end
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Suggested change
Specifically, the list of potential [=Council=] members evolves
as terms start or end
The list of potential [=Council=] members evolves
as terms start and end

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@frivoal frivoal Dec 20, 2024

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Ok with swapping or for and, but why remove specifically? My intent was to indicate that this is a clarification of the previous sentence, rather than an additional requirement. I guess I'd be ok with turning the period at the end of the previous sentence into a colon instead of saying Specifically at the start of the next one, but having neither weakens the link between the two statements.

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The sentence that begins with Specifically does not describe a refinement of — i.e., something more specific than — the sentence beginning with Membership. Rather, the two sentences each discuss a different aspect of Council formation and membership. Note that the second sentence speaks of potential [=Council=] members, while the first sentence speaks of Membership of each [=Council=] instance. Membership of each [=Council=] instance obviously derives from potential [=Council=] members, but potential [=Council=] members is less specific than Membership of each [=Council=] instance.

My point might be clarified (and a better fix achieved) by adjusting the entire paragraph, along the lines of —

	A distinct instance of the [=W3C Council=] is convened
	for each decision being appealed or objected to.
	The list of potential [=Council=] members evolves
	as [=AB=] and [=TAG=] terms start and end
	until [=dismissal=] is concluded,
	and is fixed thereafter.
	Membership of each [=Council=] instance is fixed at formation,
	and is not changed by any [=AB=] or [=TAG=] elections
	occurring before that Council has reached a conclusion.
	However, if participation in a [=Council=] falls
	so low as to hinder effective and balanced deliberations,
	the [=W3C Council Chair=] <em class="rfc2119">should</em>
	dissolve the [=Council=]
	and call for a new one to be convened.

I am left wondering how participation [could fall] so low, as it is clearly not by AB or TAG terms/elections. Maybe "participation" in this case actually means "active participation", distinct from "membership"?

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I am left wondering how participation [could fall] so low, as it is clearly not by AB or TAG terms/elections. Maybe "participation" in this case actually means "active participation", distinct from "membership"?

That is indeed the intended meaning.

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It is intended as a clarification of what "at formation" means. Dismissal+renunciation is what turns potential members into actual ones. As long as it hasn't occurred, potential members can be added or removed (by terms ending or starting), but once we've decided on who (if any) is removed, then the (actual, not potential) list of member is fixed, and no longer changes.

How about:

	A distinct instance of the [=W3C Council=] is convened
	for each decision being appealed or objected to.
	The list of potential [=Council=] members evolves
	as [=AB=] and [=TAG=] terms start and end
	until [=dismissal=] and [=renunciation=] are concluded;
	thereafter, the membership of the [=Council=] is fixed,
	and is not changed by any [=AB=] or [=TAG=] elections
	occurring before that Council has reached a conclusion.
	However, if active participation in a [=Council=] falls
	so low as to hinder effective and balanced deliberations,
	the [=W3C Council Chair=] <em class="rfc2119">should</em>
	dissolve the [=Council=]
	and call for a new one to be convened.

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The part I see missing is when and how potential [=Council=] members become the membership of the [=Council=] — presuming that the latter is a subset of the former.

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The part I see missing is when and how potential [=Council=] members become the membership of the [=Council=] — presuming that the latter is a subset of the former.

By neither being dismissed nor renouncing.

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Oh! I think this gets us closer. It might need something about how the membership of a [=Council=] might decrease after it is fixed.

	A distinct instance of the [=W3C Council=] is convened
	for each decision being appealed or objected to.
	The list of potential [=Council=] members evolves
	as [=AB=] and [=TAG=] terms start and end
	until [=dismissal=] and [=renunciation=] are concluded,
	at which point all remaining potential [=Council=] 
	members become full members; thereafter, the membership
	of the [=Council=] is fixed, and is not changed by any
	[=AB=] or [=TAG=] elections that occur before that
	Council has reached a conclusion. However, if the number
	of active members in a [=Council=] falls so low as to
	hinder effective and balanced deliberations, the
	[=Council Chair=] <em class="rfc2119">should</em>
	dissolve the [=Council=] and call for a new one to be 
	convened.

(I also deleted W3C from [=W3C Council Chair=], as it seems odd when only the first [=W3C Council=] mention includes W3C. All other [=Council=] clearly mean [=W3C Council=], and I think it's clear that [=Council Chair=] means [=W3C Council Chair=].)

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