lawd:Place need refining

[hcayless]

https://github.com/lawdi/LAWD#place needs some better definition. Particularly with regard to how it aligns with Geovocab and CIDOC-CRM.

[mlana]

would like to collaborate to the definition of Place.
first things coming to mind are "foundedBy" and "sacredTo"
as you know geolat will work specifically to these issues, we are happy to contribute (and to have a place where putting our contributions).

[hcayless]

I like Sean's distinction of "Place" vs. "Space". I was very definitely thinking of the idea of a place rather than its physical extent. Although the two are obviously tightly bound together, they aren't the same. Unless, I suppose, you define "Place" that way. What I want from a lawd:Place would be:

1. A resource to which I can attach one or more names, locations, or extents
2. Have those attachments be time-dependent (if I have that information)
3. Have the ability to attach citations or other evidence to the name/location/extent resources.
4. Retain the ability to only do very simple things quickly (like x lawd:foundAt pleiades:y)

[hcayless]

Just to follow up: to do foundedBy, sacredTo, etc., we'll need People, mythical persons, and gods. Mythical places would be nice too—and of course those may be identified with various real places at different times and by different persons. There's clearly a lot to do...

[mlana]

Il 04/06/2013 22:50, Hugh A. Cayless ha scritto:

I like Sean's distinction of "Place" vs. "Space". I was very
definitely thinking of the idea of a place rather than its physical
extent. Although the two are obviously tightly bound together, they
aren't the same. Unless, I suppose, you define "Place" that way.

agree. it's someway similar to what we in geolat were thinking in terms
of physical vs. cultural components, it seems.
GPS coordinates define a specific space; a place is a space to which
humans gave a name, where they did/do activities and so on.
we usually don't have places without a space definition; but mythical
and unknown places are void of space definition.

What I want from a lawd:Place would be:

1. A resource to which I can attach one or more names, locations, or
   extents

what do you mean exactly with "extents"?

2 Have those attachments be time-dependent (if I have that information)
absolutely: the place name of a space evolves along the time; but also
it's different according to cultures/literatures (the gallic name
"felsina" which corresponds to the roman/latin "bononia"). so to
time-dependent i would add culture/literature dependent

3 Have the ability to attach citations or other evidence to the
name/location/extent resources.

isn't it best to have geo resources linked to passages? for some
spaces/places (rome!) you could end with a huge list of citations
attached to the "rome"

maurizio

4 Retain the ability to only do very simple things quickly (like x
lawd:foundAt pleiades:y)

everybody knows that the war is over
everybody knows the good guys lost
everybody knows the fight was fixed
the poor stay poor, the rich get rich

(l. cohen, everybody knows)

il corso di informatica umanistica:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85JsyJw2zuw
la biblioteca digitale del latino tardo:http://www.digiliblt.unipmn.it/

a day in the life of DH2013:http://dayofdh2013.matrix.msu.edu/digiliblt/

Maurizio Lana - ricercatore
Università del Piemonte Orientale, Dipartimento di Studi Umanistici
via Manzoni 8, 13100 Vercelli - tel. +39 347 7370925

[hcayless]

On Jun 5, 2013, at 10:50 , mlana [email protected] wrote:

Il 04/06/2013 22:50, Hugh A. Cayless ha scritto:

I like Sean's distinction of "Place" vs. "Space". I was very
definitely thinking of the idea of a place rather than its physical
extent. Although the two are obviously tightly bound together, they
aren't the same. Unless, I suppose, you define "Place" that way.

agree. it's someway similar to what we in geolat were thinking in terms
of physical vs. cultural components, it seems.
GPS coordinates define a specific space; a place is a space to which
humans gave a name, where they did/do activities and so on.
we usually don't have places without a space definition; but mythical
and unknown places are void of space definition.

Exactly. And Pleiades' data model does this as well, I believe. It's perfectly possible to have non-mythical places for which you only have a name, not a precise location.

What I want from a lawd:Place would be:

1. A resource to which I can attach one or more names, locations, or
   extents

what do you mean exactly with "extents"?

I'm thinking of extent as the shape(s) of the place—if you wanted or needed a polygon describing the boundaries of a place. I think of location as being more of a point.

2 Have those attachments be time-dependent (if I have that information)
absolutely: the place name of a space evolves along the time; but also
it's different according to cultures/literatures (the gallic name
"felsina" which corresponds to the roman/latin "bononia"). so to
time-dependent i would add culture/literature dependent

Is it enough to just identify the language of the name?

3 Have the ability to attach citations or other evidence to the
name/location/extent resources.

isn't it best to have geo resources linked to passages? for some
spaces/places (rome!) you could end with a huge list of citations
attached to the "rome"

I think those are two different use cases: one is wanting to say where the evidence for the use of a particular name comes from (we know the name of place x because of an inscription, for example), and the other is to record that a text mentions the place.

maurizio

4 Retain the ability to only do very simple things quickly (like x
lawd:foundAt pleiades:y)

everybody knows that the war is over
everybody knows the good guys lost
everybody knows the fight was fixed
the poor stay poor, the rich get rich

(l. cohen, everybody knows)

il corso di informatica umanistica:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85JsyJw2zuw
la biblioteca digitale del latino tardo:http://www.digiliblt.unipmn.it/

a day in the life of DH2013:http://dayofdh2013.matrix.msu.edu/digiliblt/

Maurizio Lana - ricercatore
Università del Piemonte Orientale, Dipartimento di Studi Umanistici
via Manzoni 8, 13100 Vercelli - tel. +39 347 7370925
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