Funkverbindung zu HomematicIP Komponenten rein über HMIP-AP ohne installiertes Funkmodul

[MattN82]

Describe the issue you are experiencing

(EDIT: Weiß der Geier, warum ich das auf englisch geschrieben habe....die englische Menüführung wahrscheinlich :-) )

Hi,

my raspberrymatic runs on a VM inside of Virtual Machine Manager on a Synology NAS.
A HB-RF-USB-TK with an RPI-RF-MOD handles communication with the HMIP components in my System.

Recently I've added a HMIP-AP as a LAN gateway to increase the range of my HMIP "network".

As th HB-RF-USB-TK with RPI-RF-MOD is a kind of...diy solution (and a possible single point of failure)..I tried to run my raspberrymatic without it as an experiment....thinking it wouldn't be necessary as the HMIP-AP should just act as a kind of replacement. (so I thought). But it doesn't.

As soon as I boot up my rpm without the above mentioned USB-Module, it doesn't work.

Why? Is there any technical reason behind that? HMIP components can and do communicate with an AP exclusively (my garage is living proof of that :-D ). So why does RPM just....stop working as soon as there is no module installed instead of just "rerouting" the "traffic" over the HMIP-AP?

Thanks in advance

Describe the behavior you expected

In my humble opinion, RPM should take advantage of the given RF-Hardware no matter what it is. The need for a centralized solution creates the risk of the whole installation failing if the module attached to the hardware (NAS in my case) stops working.

Whereas a system with multiple HMIP-APs could handle a single failure...even of the main module...as they would just "take over" the traffic.

Steps to reproduce the issue

1. Take the Hardware I described (USB-module + HMIP-AP) -> Everything works fine
2. remove the main module but leave the HMIP-AP attached -> System won't even show duty cycle, as there is no RF going on

...

What is the version this bug report is based on?

3.63.8.20220330

Which base platform are you running?

ova (Open Virtual Infrastructure)

Which HomeMatic/homematicIP radio module are you using?

RPI-RF-MOD

Anything in the logs that might be useful for us?

I feel like this is probably me misunderstanding some technical restraints...so I'm pretty much sure I will get the answer "this is normal":-)...so at this point I would hesitate to dive into logs...but I will surely provide them if this is NOT normal behavior

Additional information

No response

[jens-maus]

You are right, the answer is: "this is normal". In fact, a RPI-RF-MOD or HmIP-RFUSB RF module is required for using/adding a HmIP-HAP as a range extender. The reason is, that these rf modules are not only doing rf communication, they are actually (and named so) co-processors for providing the cryptographic functionality for homematicIP communication in general. So a valid RPI-RF-MOD or HmIP-RFUSB is required for communication with a HmIP-HAP or even to/from a HmIPW-DRAP gateway for homematicIP-Wired communication.

So this is not a limitation, but a feature actually and the reason why in the documentation (see https://github.com/jens-maus/RaspberryMatic/wiki/Einleitung#voraussetzungen) they are listed as required.

[janosch74]

...a RPI-RF-MOD or HmIP-RFUSB RF module is required for using/adding a HmIP-HAP as a range extender.

Eine Rückfrage dazu: Mit der aktuellen Firmware sollte es doch möglich sein, des HmIP-HAP als LAN-Gateway zu konfigurieren. Ist die Aussage mit den zusätzlichen USB Funk-Modulen weiterhin gültig? Hintergrund: Meine Synology steht Funktechnisch sehr ungünstig und ich würde gerne auch aus anderen Gründen gerne auf die USB-Module verzichten und stattdessen ausschließlich HmIP-HAP als LAN-Gateway nutzen.
Geht das mit der neuen Firmware nun "standalone"?

[jens-maus]

Hintergrund: Meine Synology steht Funktechnisch sehr ungünstig und ich würde gerne auch aus anderen Gründen gerne auf die USB-Module verzichten und stattdessen ausschließlich HmIP-HAP als LAN-Gateway nutzen. Geht das mit der neuen Firmware nun "standalone"?

Nein, das geht mit der aktuellen Firmware des HmIP-HAP nicht und wir auch vmtl. nie gehen. Ein HmIP-HAP braucht immer im Betrieb mit einer CCU/RaspberryMatic zusätzlich ein Funk/Kryptomodul wie ein RPI-RF-MOD oder HmIP-RFUSB.

[MattN82]

First of all: Thanks for the ultra-fast response!

I get that....sad for my showerthought-use-case....but I get it.

But that leads me to an additional question:

During my experiments, (which I didn't mention in my first post) I also tried replacing the existing "HB-RF-USB-TK with an RPI-RF-MOD"-Solution with a HMIP-RFUSB Stick.

Which caused the exact same behavior. (No connection to anything including the HMIP-AP)

Why is that?

[jens-maus]

A different problem of course!

[MattN82]

I See....so a primary module can neither be removed nor replaced