Discuss gym leader changes you would like to see (6-9)

[Tempo-anon]

ref: https://github.com/Despair-Games/poketernity/blob/beta/src/data/balance/signatureSpecies.ts

Some guidelines:

• Teams should stick to their canon/iconic Pokemon
• Pokemon chosen should represent the generation of the trainer
• Pokemon chosen should be unique and show off underrepresented Pokemon
• Gym leaders should be balanced enough that they are reasonable as the first or final gym

Note: Pokemon listed in order of the signatureSpecies DOES matter. That is the order in which they're guaranteed to spawn as well as being earlier in the list usually results in being placed in the back of the trainer's team which means higher levels

Question:

• How do people feel about gym leaders with off type Pokemon on their team? (i.e. Brock with Vulpix/Zubat, Misty with Togepi) This might be a problem since gen 9 gym leaders all use off type Pokemon that they then tera into their type

Kalos gym leaders

VIOLA: [Species.SURSKIT, Species.SCATTERBUG],
Order of the 2 should be swapped but otherwise fine as those are the only two Pokemon she's ever used in any of her appearances
GRANT: [Species.AMAURA, Species.TYRUNT],
This is fine
KORRINA: [Species.HAWLUCHA, Species.LUCARIO, Species.MIENFOO],
Should change the Lucario to Riolu. She also uses the Machop line but that's so overused for fighting trainers I think sticking with Mienfoo is fine
RAMOS: [Species.SKIDDO, Species.HOPPIP, Species.BELLSPROUT],
This is fine though I'd swap bellsprout and Hoppip
CLEMONT: [Species.HELIOPTILE, Species.MAGNEMITE, Species.EMOLGA],
This is fine
VALERIE: [Species.SYLVEON, Species.MAWILE, Species.MR_MIME],
Mime JR should probably be the second slot but otherwise it's fine
OLYMPIA: [Species.ESPURR, Species.SIGILYPH, Species.SLOWKING],
Swap second and third slots
WULFRIC: [Species.BERGMITE, Species.SNOVER, Species.CRYOGONAL],
Swap second and third slots

Kalos conclusion: Pretty accurate but wow these gym leaders are super bland

Galar gym leaders

MILO: [Species.GOSSIFLEUR, Species.APPLIN, Species.BOUNSWEET],
No complaints here, pretty good
NESSA: [Species.CHEWTLE, Species.ARROKUDA, Species.WIMPOD],
I think Goldeen makes more sense than Wimpod if we're talking purely her gym battle, and it's not used by anyone else
KABU: [Species.SIZZLIPEDE, Species.VULPIX, Species.TORKOAL],
I'd change Vulpix to Growlithe and add in Salandit but that's a minor nitpick
BEA: [Species.GALAR_FARFETCHD, Species.MACHOP, Species.CLOBBOPUS],
Falinks can also work here. Also her ace should be Machop
ALLISTER: [Species.GALAR_YAMASK, Species.GALAR_CORSOLA, Species.GASTLY],
Ace should be Gastly
OPAL: [Species.MILCERY, Species.TOGETIC, Species.GALAR_WEEZING],
Should be Togepi for consistency but otherwise good
BEDE: [Species.HATENNA, Species.GALAR_PONYTA, Species.GARDEVOIR],
Fine, though Mawile can also work but I like Gardevoir as a reference to his story arc
GORDIE: [Species.ROLYCOLY, Species.STONJOURNER, Species.BINACLE],
Looks fine. Shuckle and Larvitar can also be added
MELONY: [Species.SNOM, Species.GALAR_DARUMAKA, Species.GALAR_MR_MIME],
Melony should have Lapras (ace). She should also have Eiscue
PIERS: [Species.GALAR_ZIGZAGOON, Species.SCRAGGY, Species.INKAY],
Can also have Skuntank. And Toxel if going for an off-type pick
MARNIE: [Species.IMPIDIMP, Species.PURRLOIN, Species.MORPEKO],
Can also have Scrafty. Croagunk is also part of her team, if off-type
RAIHAN: [Species.DURALUDON, Species.TURTONATOR, Species.GOOMY],
Raihan's in game gym team is actually very different, being mostly a sand based team with Gigalith, Flygon, and Sandaconda. His second battle also features sun and rain as well. Raihan is a character that should have special attention paid to but Flygon should definitely be here somewhere.

Galar conclusion: Gym leaders have more variety but also don't showcase the region as much. Raihan in particular got changed a lot

Paldea gym leaders

KATY: [Species.NYMBLE, Species.TAROUNTULA, Species.HERACROSS],
Her actual ace should be Teddiursa
BRASSIUS: [Species.SMOLIV, Species.SHROOMISH, Species.ODDISH],
His actual ace should be Sudowoodo. He also uses a Petilil instead of Shroomish/Oddish. He's also associated with Sunflora
IONO: [Species.TADBULB, Species.WATTREL, Species.VOLTORB],
Her actual ace should be Misdreavus. She does use Voltorb but in her gym battle she uses a Luxio instead so that should have higher spawn priority than Voltorb (if at all). She's also very associated with Magnemite
KOFU: [Species.VELUZA, Species.WIGLETT, Species.WINGULL],
His actual ace should be Crabominable. He also uses Clawitzer and Feraligatr in the rematches
LARRY: [Species.STARLY, Species.DUNSPARCE, Species.KOMALA],
Yep this is his team. Oinkalogne shows up in the rematch and also highlights gen 9
RYME: [Species.GREAVARD, Species.SHUPPET, Species.MIMIKYU],
Her actual ace is Toxitricity. In the rematches she also uses Spiritomb and Golurk
TULIP: [Species.GIRAFARIG, Species.FLITTLE, Species.RALTS],
Her actual ace is Florges. She also has a Gallade and Delphox in the rematch so that might be something interesting to consider
GRUSHA: [Species.CETODDLE, Species.ALOLA_VULPIX, Species.CUBCHOO],
His actual ace is Altaria. He also uses a Frosmoth (gym battle) and Weavile (rematch) while the Alola Vulpix is also from the rematch

Paldea conclusion: A lot of gym leaders are missing their actual ace due to the way terastalization is currently implemented. Should be something to consider

[gerolau]

VIOLA: [Species.SURSKIT, Species.SCATTERBUG],
I know this is her only canon pokemon but its so... bad. what if we slapped dewpider on here because of her gym puzzle
GRANT: [Species.AMAURA, Species.TYRUNT],
You can give him Carbink for flavor, but otherwise it's fine
KORRINA: [Species.HAWLUCHA, Species.LUCARIO, Species.MIENFOO],
This does what it needs to do.
RAMOS: [Species.SKIDDO, Species.HOPPIP, Species.BELLSPROUT],
i just opened every battle on this mans bulbapedia page and felt extreme pain. Its fine and its canon, but goddamn.
CLEMONT: [Species.HELIOPTILE, Species.MAGNEMITE, Species.EMOLGA],
If we don't want Magnemite again, we can maybe swap Dedenne or even Togedemaru. This said, both are so frail you could probably also make them a 4th slot.
VALERIE: [Species.SYLVEON, Species.MAWILE, Species.MR_MIME],
Does what it has to
OLYMPIA: [Species.ESPURR, Species.SIGILYPH, Species.SLOWKING],
Again, not much to do here
WULFRIC: [Species.BERGMITE, Species.SNOVER, Species.CRYOGONAL],
Its fine

MILO: [Species.GOSSIFLEUR, Species.APPLIN, Species.BOUNSWEET],
all good, can he generate hydrapple?
NESSA: [Species.CHEWTLE, Species.ARROKUDA, Species.WIMPOD],
Goldeen here i like, its not like theres a different major trainer whos whole thing is golisopod
KABU: [Species.SIZZLIPEDE, Species.VULPIX, Species.TORKOAL],
I like Growlithe Salandit too. If Gen 7 totems ever become real and we wanna swap salazzle, we can also use Chandelure as a litwick appears in his gym.
BEA: [Species.GALAR_FARFETCHD, Species.MACHOP, Species.CLOBBOPUS],
Falinks slot 4? Grapploct is not that special.
ALLISTER: [Species.GALAR_YAMASK, Species.GALAR_CORSOLA, Species.GASTLY],
Fine
OPAL: [Species.MILCERY, Species.TOGETIC, Species.GALAR_WEEZING],
Good
BEDE: [Species.HATENNA, Species.GALAR_PONYTA, Species.GARDEVOIR],
I prefer Garde over Mawile, though this does stick him with 3 Psychic/Fairies by default.
GORDIE: [Species.ROLYCOLY, Species.STONJOURNER, Species.BINACLE],
I would either add 4th slot shuckle or swap shuckle and binacle.
MELONY: [Species.SNOM, Species.GALAR_DARUMAKA, Species.GALAR_MR_MIME],
Hard agree, these gyms purposefully show off Eiscue and Stonjournor as counter parts and I think that should be kept, and while Lapras is over played she should have her Gmax mon. Remove Darumaka (no one needs to deal with that.) and either leave mr rime as a 4th slot or give him to pryce (im still shilling this)
PIERS: [Species.GALAR_ZIGZAGOON, Species.SCRAGGY, Species.INKAY],
I don't mind this team. did you know klara doesnt have a toxel? i just learned that. Adding a poison type to a dark gym leader is funny
MARNIE: [Species.IMPIDIMP, Species.PURRLOIN, Species.MORPEKO],
Fine, again, adding a poison type to a dark gym leader is funny.
RAIHAN: [Species.DURALUDON, Species.TURTONATOR, Species.GOOMY],
The issue with this set is they just took the dragons despite the fact that all 3 of these dragons are meant to be played in a different weather (turt is for playing off torkoal and goomy has one set for spamming thunder with rain dance). I would do Duraludon, Flygon, Sandaconda, and Goomy, with the hopes that goomy spawns with Sap Sipper to serve as a switch in to protect Sandaconda. Turt could also be used, as his fire typing may play well with flygons Levitate, but either can work.

We need to decide if the Paldea gyms should stick to the mono typing, or if we should embrace the off typed tera aces. This could be a poll but im largely okay with adding these mons back in as long as the Paldean pokemon the represent arent culled in favor of it.
KATY: [Species.NYMBLE, Species.TAROUNTULA, Species.HERACROSS],
Heracross should go, unnecessary power buffing. I wonder if we can give her rellor as a slot 4
BRASSIUS: [Species.SMOLIV, Species.SHROOMISH, Species.ODDISH],
I would do sunkern or Petilil over Shroomish, maybe we could hard code a hisui lilligant to flex his generation/wind mill jumping abilities. Sudo over oddish is good
IONO: [Species.TADBULB, Species.WATTREL, Species.VOLTORB],
I would just remove voltorb and add misdreavus, we can add shinx as a 4th slot if need be. Idk about magnemite hes so overdone
KOFU: [Species.VELUZA, Species.WIGLETT, Species.WINGULL],
I would say Crabominable over wingull and that feels like his team for me. I would not remove Wiglett as this is one of few times we get to show a convergent from paldea, and the guy screams "vaultin veluza" too much to remove veluza. Slot 4 totodile is tempting to me
LARRY: [Species.STARLY, Species.DUNSPARCE, Species.KOMALA],
Oink can be a slot 4, its oinkologne.
RYME: [Species.GREAVARD, Species.SHUPPET, Species.MIMIKYU],
Get that Mimikyu out of here.
TULIP: [Species.GIRAFARIG, Species.FLITTLE, Species.RALTS],
While I find Delphox interesting, Farig Espathra and florges works for me too.
GRUSHA: [Species.CETODDLE, Species.ALOLA_VULPIX, Species.CUBCHOO],
I think I prefer keeping the Alolan vulpix over Frosmoth. I feel like Frosmoth is too associated to Melony that theyd feel very samey, also we may not have another place to put an alolan vulpix.